Los Angeles-based folk-punk musician Sunny War — born Sydney Lyndella Ward — is known for her virtuosic guitar playing accompanied by deeply honest lyrics reflecting 21st century concerns. From playing in smaller Americana scenes to being on multiple late-night shows in the past year, Ward’s journey in music has been nothing less than fruitful.

Her latest album, Anarchist Gospel, explores resiliency and deep reflection, as it’s wrapped up in a bow of lush harmonic music with strong roots in Americana and folk. 

Before her show at the Turf Club in St. Paul, Sunny War stopped by The Current studio to share some songs from her newest album and to talk about her start in music — involving a quirky and distinctive band name.

Interview Transcript

Ayisha Jaffer: Hey, I'm Ayisha Jaffer, we're at The Current studios with Sunny War. Thanks for being here. 

Sunny War: Thanks for having me. 

Ayisha Jaffer: Now you had like a wild year; you've been on the Kelly Clarkson show, the Jimmy Kimmel show the Late Show with Stephen Colbert, and like everything in between, and I'm just wondering, like, as like a heat check, how are you just feeling?

Sunny War: I feel all right.

Ayisha Jaffer: That's great. I mean, you have quite a story. And this is like a short and condensed kind of summary, you know, playing music at a young age, then falling into the crowd at Venice Beach at the Hen House Studios. And then I always think it's interesting, this part for emerging artists to kind of know this part of the story of like, how did you end up finding New West [Records]? Or how did they end up finding you in this journey in music?

Sunny War: I think probably just from kind of having press with like different Americana sites and stuff. With the first two albums I did with Hen House, I think they were interested, like, after the Simple Syrup album, they emailed my manager, just kind of talking about maybe doing the record or doing the next record.

Ayisha Jaffer: And then here you are, and there's so much going on. And you've self made this, this whole journey, and it's been quite a journey. And I have to say, the Anarchist Gospel is like maybe one of the best album titles I've heard to date.

Sunny War: Oh, all right!

Ayisha Jaffer: And I love knowing that history, though, that like you're a punk kid; you had the best band name ever: Anus, anus...

Sunny War: Kings!

Ayisha Jaffer: Anus Kings! I just want to say it several times because it's part of your history. Anus Kings in L.A., right? You did this—

Sunny War: Yeah.

Ayisha Jaffer: ...this group, and it was a duo?

Sunny War: Yeah. Well, it was a trio, too, at a certain — like, sometimes we had a drummer, sometimes. But it was hard to to keep it going, because the drummer moved to New York. And then the Anus Kings kind of stopped after that.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah, but punk has always kind of been in your life, something important in your life, but then also right, like, with gospel too, like going to the church and being drawn to the music. So putting this together, it makes a lot of sense in the title.

Sunny War: Well, I don't know about it making sense! But I mean, I like gospel. Well, I didn't mean it like... I mention it because it kind of has like a lot of choir singing. But I guess some of, I think some of them, the songs are kind of gospel like. But yeah, I still listen, I still listen to a lot of gospel actually. I like the chords, and I like the beat, like a lot. And a lot of good basslines, or the best basslines are in gospel music. I also like people just kind of like screaming; like sometimes you get that — I guess a lot of things I like about some hardcore bands I like about gospel music.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah, the parallel. That's true! I didn't even think about it that way. Well, and I heard, I heard in another interview and I thought this was so interesting that you said self-love is anarchy, and I'm just curious if you could kind of expand on that sentiment and maybe how that's incorporated into the Anarchist Gospel.

Sunny War: The really, like, obnoxious gospel music is very similar, like, especially when it's like, it gets like [claps hands in cadence] it gets kind of like that. Well not self-love, just love, I think.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah?

Sunny War: But I guess, well, I guess maybe even self love, but I think anarchy is love because it's like a type of trust, I think. I think like a lot of people associate the word "anarchy" with like chaos or something instead of just like no government, and I feel like people, like, to feel like you need to be governed is kind of saying you don't trust yourself or other people. And I don't get that part of the fear of anarchy, because I just think we're all — even right now, mostly — it seems like most people, except for like, extremely rich people, we're all like, what's going on, why aren't they helping? Like, it seems like we're already like, saying that we're this group of people in they're some completely different people. So we're already like, knowing that they're over here, and we're over here. So I feel like why wouldn't ... we're disappointed with the government constantly, forever. Like, it's been like that forever, so it's just as weird when people are like, "But we need them," but it's like they're not, haven't done anything that we want them to do. And voting doesn't really seem to change anything. And so I feel like, it's like a fear thing. I feel like love would be like, maybe we just need each other and to just, like, take care of each other. Like it might be more stable for us to just, like, because I don't even know anybody that has health insurance. I don't know anybody that can see a doctor. Like it just seems like at this point, why don't we just, maybe we could get somebody that is technically a doctor to agree to help people. Like I feel like we're already at that point where it's like, we might as well try to just take care of each other, because it's just not likely that we can get the basic stuff that we need as people anymore.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah. So love is anarchy in a sense, if you...

Sunny War: Yeah.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah.

Sunny War: Because then even the other points of like, what if something happens and you need to call the police and blah, blah, blah, that doesn't even really work. If you've ever been in an emergency where you did actually need the police, even that doesn't actually come through at the right time; like, nothing that they're supposed to be doing is actually working well. So I don't even get that. You'd be better off calling somebody you know, if there's like an emergency where you need — I don't know. So that's more, I feel like the love part. It's like actually being a community for each other is what I think of as anarchy.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah, and in this record, too, I mean, you've you've been through a lot: You moved, you went through a breakup, you lost a loved one, and you can kind of hear that raw energy in the album. And when you talk about love is anarchy, is that kind of a through line to what you're conveying in this record?

Sunny War: I don't ... well, love isn't anarchy, but anarchy is love.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yes.

Sunny War: Love is a lot of things, I think.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah.

Sunny War: But maybe, like, because some other stuff could be called love, too, I guess. I don't know what love is; I'm not good at that. Well, I know, like, unromantic love; I'm good at that kind of love. Like I love people and stuff and my friends, but the other kind of love I don't know.

Ayisha Jaffer: Look, you're not alone on that one.

Sunny War: Yeah, I don't care for that one.

Ayisha Jaffer: Well, we're playing a song here on The Current — we're thrashing your song "No Reason," and I hear like some frustration in that track. Can you explain like the inspiration behind that one?

Sunny War: I think just like, like inner, just duality, and just kind of being, like, being good and bad at the same time. And like, having to choose so sometimes between the two. Or even trying to restrain one side of yourself to view what you think is the better version or something. And just like, because even, like when, just like with the breakup, and then even my dad passing away and stuff, I felt like there's a lot of... I felt like I was dealing with that, just trying like not to drink a lot, and then feeling like, just feeling like just completely relapsing on everything at certain points, and then feeling like it was justified. Like, "If I'm this sad, I can just do whatever I want." And then that, I feel like, can be like, because I know that's not even right. So I feel like there's just a fight like, "Nah, maybe you should try to be healthy because that's not going to make everything worse, really." Like just knowing when things are wrong, and you're just doing them anyway, it's kind of like, "No reason" is kind of like about that: when you're just fighting with yourself because you know the right thing, but it doesn't feel right, I guess.

Ayisha Jaffer: It's like an internal tug of war.

Sunny War: Yeah.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah. Well, I want to talk about your style of playing too, because it's so unique. And I heard somewhere that your finger picking was kind of like from watching a family friend play the banjo and your uncle play upright bass. Is that how that kind of evolved?

Sunny War: Yeah, kind of, yeah. I think because I never saw anyone strumming, really, until later, but even besides them, I think it was also, like, I remember being influenced by Dave Rawlings and Gillian Welch because like, I don't know why, I feel like I remember like, O Brother coming out, that movie coming out, and then everybody was really obsessed with them for a while, like when that movie came out, and then my mom was listening to the record a lot, The Revelator record. And then I couldn't really tell what was banjo and what wasn't banjo.

And I think I was confused about a lot of stuff for a while when I was a kid. Like, what sounds were supposed to come out of what instrument, I guess. Because even the bass thing, I didn't even know, I feel like I never heard him bow for a long time. So even that I remember being shocking, like, "Oh, that's a different sound that that instrument can make." Like I didn't really hear a lot of different stuff live. So it's kind of like what you heard and what you watched, you kind of put to the guitar and made your own style. Yeah! And I thought I thought the soundtrack of O Brother, Where Art Thou, that's guitar, all guitar.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah.

Sunny War: So I just thought that these are natural guitar sounds.

Ayisha Jaffer: And you just made them. 

Sunny War: Yeah. I thought I was making country music, though. There was a lot of weird stuff going on at first, when I was playing at first.

Ayisha Jaffer: That's awesome. Yeah. And I bet everybody does when they're experimenting; it's a strange world. And I heard also — and you can correct me if I'm wrong — but in Anus Kings, you guys wanted a singer, right? You didn't want to sing.

Sunny War: Yeah, we never had a singer. Nobody wants to be in Anus Kings for some reason. I don't know why.

Ayisha Jaffer: Rude! It's the best band name ever. For a punk band.

Sunny War: Maybe they just, they didn't get it.

Ayisha Jaffer: But then you ended up singing, and you're still singing, and I think your voice is phenomenal. But from, but it's not something you love to do. Is that right? Or are you are you now loving it more?

Sunny War: I don't like singing, but I like the challenge, like trying to write something to sing, I guess, or trying to figure out how to be comfortable. I like lyrics. So I guess I like, I would like to have a singer though, still. Or just to play with somebody else. And because I don't get the breathing of it, I guess. I guess there are, like, some people are better. It's like, I know there's like, there's a trick to the breathing thing.

Ayisha Jaffer: Look, you're fooling all of us; it sounds great.

Sunny War: But I feel like I run out of breath or something. There's like things that they do. That's why people take, they have like, an instructor or something. There's like breathing things that they do. And then like, there's stuff singers don't do; like, I'm never gonna quit smoking. You know, like, there's stuff, it's like, if I really was into it, I wouldn't... I'm just not going to do that for that. And that's like, that would just suck. like I would be so like, "Just to sing?" You know? There's people that are like, "I won't cut my nails to play guitar." That's like me saying, "I won't quit smoking to sing." You know, it's like it's because you don't really care about it. So I'm thinking I would rather be more like Tom Waits. That's what I'm hoping, that my voice gets deeper every year. Until you can't even hear it. You just want it to be... Where I'll just growl

Ayisha Jaffer: I mean, that's kind of the punk vibe. That would be tight. Yeah.

Sunny War: Or something. Maybe it wouldn't. I could play in a cigar bar. And just live there. 

Ayisha Jaffer: I love these dreams!

Sunny War: Yeah.

Ayisha Jaffer: They're beautiful. I like the visuals of these dreams. You picked up a cigar box, too, recently, I think?

Sunny War: Oh, I have two.

Ayisha Jaffer: Whaaaa...

Sunny War: I have two cigar box guitars.

Ayisha Jaffer: Are we going to hear that like on the next record?

Sunny War: Maybe, I don't know! I hope it doesn't break. It's fragile.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah, it looks fragile.

Sunny War: I recorded a demo with it, though, so maybe.

Ayisha Jaffer: That's exciting. Well, you know, speaking kind of like, we were talking about like, you know, like the weird experimental world of music. And I found that you picked up a guitar at seven, but also at that age, you kind of discovered Ween. And I know there's a Ween cover on this record. And I'm just like, did Ween inspire it all, or what inspired you to pick up that guitar?

Sunny War: Not Ween! I think it's definitely just my mom and my stepdad and his band, because they were always around. So I think it was because... and even the weird guy that plays banjo, he was like my stepdad's friend that was always around, I think just like seeing people play stuff. But my mom says it was from Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Ayisha Jaffer: Oh, wow.

Sunny War: Because she said that I asked for guitar, like earlier, watching that or something. And I also, I should ask her why, I'm not gonna say she was a bad mom or anything; I just, there's certain stuff, I wouldn't really be watching with a little kid or whatever. But then, then she got me one eventually, when I was seven. But I think, there was also this guy that was in my stepdad's band, he would always be around, or we would go to his house, and he had a bunch of guitars. And he had, like... because he had like, a little home, he did all the recording, so he had all kinds of stuff at his house. So I think it was just seeing it. Because there's a lot of stuff like, if you show a kid like enough, like — I don't know, like, if they're around like dirt bikes or something, they're gonna do it. I think it's like, kind of like that.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah, just being in your environment.

Sunny War: Yeah.

Ayisha Jaffer: What kind of band was it that they played?

Sunny War: It's called Holtzclaw.

Ayisha Jaffer: Nice.

Sunny War: And they're still making records, and you can find it on YouTube.

Ayisha Jaffer: Oh, wow. 

Sunny War: Holtzclaw.

Ayisha Jaffer: Oh, wow 

Sunny War: Yeah.

Ayisha Jaffer: That's cool.

Sunny War: They got a... I would say maybe it's kind of like Ween. I don't know how to describe it. They have ... I don't know what I'm allowed to say on here.

Ayisha Jaffer: Oh, whatever. We can edit everything.

Sunny War: Well, my favorite song by Holtzclaw is called "Chili and Pussy."

Ayisha Jaffer: Nice.

Sunny War: And it's about eating both wherever you want.

Ayisha Jaffer: Oh, I love that. Look, we said "Anus Kings" a bunch of times, it's fine.

Sunny War: All right.

Ayisha Jaffer: Well, OK, that's cool. And maybe, I mean, Ween, future dream collaboration, or Holtzclaw, dream collaboration in the future?

Sunny War: Yeah!

Ayisha Jaffer: Which kind of brings me to your record, because there are a lot of great artists on your record, along with you, like Allison Russell and Jim James, David Rawlings. And I see Jo [Schornikow] on the record, lots of good Nashvillians. So I'm just wondering, was it when you were in Nashville that you got connected with all of these people? Or how did that all come together?

Sunny War: Jim James, I met in L.A., and Allison Russell, I met at Newport Folk Festival, and then we have played one show or something. And then I kind of asked about it, like a year or two before recording. And then Dave Rawlings, that was through New West. Because at first, we were kind of talking about asking him to produce the whole album. So at first, it wasn't like for him to play on it. I was thinking to produce it because that was kind of like New West's, like, list of possible producers or something. So I thought, but then I was like, I don't know, I just wanted to see if he would play on it. So he was cool about it. And then the other people, they're all, like, I guess like, the Nashville like, the Bomb Shelter Studio, that's kind of like the main band that they use for most of the albums, I think, like everybody else playing on it. Except for Chris [Pierce] and Micah [Nelson], who I guess they sent their stuff from California. They just sent their tracks from California. And then the rest of the band, that's like the Bomb Shelter Band, really.

Ayisha Jaffer: One of the things I know about you, too, is that you kind of use your power, you use your power for good. I know you helped start Food Not Bombs downtown in L.A. But in Chattanooga, now, I saw you were a mentor for Girls Rock Camp. And I was just curious about like, if you could explain Girls Rock Camp and your experience doing that.

Sunny War: Girls Rock Camp, I think they have them like everywhere, like all over the country. And it's like a summer, like a day camp for I think 10- to 17-year-olds. And it's like, I want to say femme rock camp, because there are like some trans kids and stuff and non binary kids. And they, like they spend the first half of the day doing whatever instrument instruction class, and then the second half, they're like in their band, so they all form a band at the camp. And they're working on a song every day, and then at the end of the camp, then they have to perform. And then they have like different workshops and different like, there's like usually bands coming in and playing every day, like a different band will come play. So my band, I was a guitar instructor and a band mentor. And their band was called Jumpscare, and they wrote a song about AI and like, the horrors of the internet. It was like, weirdly, like really hardcore for like, I think there were like, all 12, and it was like, really extreme. It was tight! It was tight, but I was like, "Damn!" Like, they were like talking about getting scammed, like all the things that go wrong with the internet. And then the last part of the song, they were like, "Kanye West, canceled! Kim K, canceled!" Like they were just naming all these, and I was like, "Wow, this song, this is crazy!" And they played, I thought they were the best band at the whole show, but I guess probably everybody thought their band was the best, but I thought I was like, "My band is so, this song is so, they're speaking about the times." But there was some other cool bands. But it was like exhausting, though.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah?

Sunny War: I would do it again, but I think I wouldn't do both. Like, I think I would do either one or the other like the mentor the other one.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah.

Sunny War: Because it was like, we would get there 8 a.m. until 5. And it was like, I guess I never knew that they would need a lot of attention and they're very, like I was like, tired.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yeah. But already to your community, though, even though you're tired, you know, really helping them out and stuff, and I think that's really cool. I kinda want to hear the song, too!

Sunny War: I have a video of it.

Ayisha Jaffer: OK.

Sunny War: I recorded some of it.

Ayisha Jaffer: Yes! Well, before I let you go, Sunny War, it there anything else you want our listeners to know? 

Sunny War: Nope.

Ayisha Jaffer: Perfect. Well... 

Sunny War: I love you!

Ayisha Jaffer: Thank you so much for hanging out with us here today at The Current! Thanks for having me. Anarchist Gospel is out now, check it out!

Video Segments

00:00:00 New Day
00:04:13 Whole
00:08:07 No Reason
00:10:50 Interview with host Ayisha Jaffer

All songs from Sunny War’s 2023 album, Anarchist Gospel, available on New West Records.

Credits

Guest – Sunny War
Host – Ayisha Jaffer
Producer – Derrick Stevens
Video Director – Evan Clark
Audio – Micah Kopecky
Graphics – Natalia Toledo
Digital Producers – Luke Taylor, Nikhil Kumaran

External Link

Sunny War – official site